Most of the time when people say they have an unpopular opinion, it turns out it’s actually pretty popular.

Do you have some that’s really unpopular and most likely will get you downvoted?

  • Teal Dragon@lemdit.com
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    1 year ago

    That’s exactly how all of this works. It is in fact #BasicBiology

    You can do all the #ScienceDenial you like. Won’t change the facts.

    • R0cket_M00se@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Whenever people like you go this “its just biology/science!” route they always conveniently forget that the animals you’re comparing us to aren’t sapient and don’t require the time for mental development that humans do. a sixth month old dog might be physically and mentally an adult but human psychological development doesn’t end until about 23-25, our level of intelligence requires a longer incubation time.

      You pretend biology is on your side by ignoring psychology entirely.

      • thetreesaysbark@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        This and puberty takes time. It isn’t ‘puberty not started’ or ‘puberty done’. There’s also 'puberty on going ’ which takes a long time in most mammals.

      • Teal Dragon@lemdit.com
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        1 year ago

        re: “human psychological development doesn’t end until about 23-25”

        This is an urban myth. It has been thoroughly debunked.

        re: “our level of intelligence requires a longer incubation time”

        Your example was dogs. They reach adulthood in around 1 year. We take longer, yes, about 14 years.

          • Teal Dragon@lemdit.com
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            1 year ago

            Yes it has.

            and internet randos claiming qualifications they obviously don’t have is pathetic trollery.

            • Mrs_deWinter@feddit.de
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              1 year ago

              Care for some actual science? You’re making some extraordinary claims with very simplistic statements relating an interdisciplinary, highly complex field of research. There is not one single point in development when maturity is reached, there are different, simultaneous processes involving different aspects of development and maturity.

              Searching for Signatures of Brain Maturity: What Are We Searching For?

              (…) For the current discussion, the key point is that there is no single progression that encompasses functional maturation. Neural activity intensifies and reduces, varies quantitatively and qualitatively, in linear and nonlinear ways that are both linked to—and independent of—behavioral differences across development. Each of these patterns reflects developmental progress, but the wide range of ‘‘journeys’’ prohibits a simple definition of what emerging brain functional maturity looks like. (…)

              Cognitive and affective development in adolescence

              (…) As reviewed in the accompanying article by Paus [5] there is growing evidence that maturational brain processes are continuing well through adolescence. Even relatively simple structural measures, such as the ratio of whiteto-gray matter in the brain, demonstrate large-scale changes into the late teen-age years [6–8]. The impact of this continued maturation on emotional, intellectual and behavioral development has yet to be thoroughly studied, but there is considerable evidence that the second decade of life is a period of great activity with respect to changes in brain structure and function, especially in regions and systems associated with response inhibition, the calibration of risk and reward, and emotion regulation. Contrary to earlier beliefs about brain maturation in adolescence, this activity is not limited to the early adolescent period, nor is it invariably linked to processes of pubertal maturation (Figure 1). (…)

              Behavioral and Neural Pathways Supporting the Development of Prosocial and Risk-Taking Behavior Across Adolescence

              (…) Consistent with prior work showing that risk-taking behavior increases and peaks during adolescence (Gullone et al., 2000; Steinberg, 2007), we found that rebelliousness similarly increases from early adolescence to late adolescence before declining into adulthood. Research on the development of prosocial behavior however is mixed (for an overview, see Do et al., 2017). We observed a quadratic effect of age on a broad measure of prosocial behavior, peaking in mid-to-late adolescence, suggesting that, like rebelliousness, prosocial development follows a nonlinear age pattern that converges during late adolescence, although future studies should test if different age patterns are observed for different domains within prosocial behavior (such as helping and donating behavior). Our findings converge on the hypothesis that the development of rebellious and prosocial tendencies peak during late adolescence relative to earlier or later ages (Do et al., 2017), thus highlighting late adolescence as both a window of vulnerability and opportunity (…)

              • Teal Dragon@lemdit.com
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                1 year ago

                and teenagers drive the same cars as all other adults on the same roads as all other adults to the same jobs as all other adults where they do the same work as all other adults and get the same wages as all other adults and pay the same taxes as all other adults

                for all of human history we have known that teenagers are adults

                advanced research into neural pathways changes nothing. they are still just as capable of doing all the things they’ve been doing for thousands of years regardless of what some morons claim about their white matter or prefrontal cortexes.

                the brain is by far the least understood organ in the human body, and lots of clickbait bullshit pseudo-science has convinced people that everyone under 25 is a retard. it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that teens would be just fine, if we only treated them with basic respect and gave them a chance.

                history is replete with examples of that happening. the current level of infantilization of young adults aged 14-24 in the USA is completely unprecedented. it’s a huge experiment, and as their rates of depression, self-harm, and suicide have skyrocketed it’s safe to say this path is disastrous, evil, or both.

                • Mrs_deWinter@feddit.de
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                  1 year ago

                  has convinced people that everyone under 25 is a retard

                  But this follows from none of those papers. You have simply no clue what you’re talking about.

                  I’m absolutely in favor of letting young adults live their lives and participate in society. Give them the right to vote, let their voices be heard. Give them the opportunities they need and want. You’re arguing against a strawman if you think I am against any of those. But your original claim is simply false. There are differences between people with 20 and 40, and a much bigger difference between 16 and 40. That doesn’t mean we should infantilize 16 year olds, but in certain aspects treating them the same will simply be unfair to the teenager. We have juvenile laws for a reason. And the recommendation to wait with smoking until the early 20s isn’t simply meant to annoy young people either.

                  If you’d stop looking at this from your over emotional point of view and read up on some actual research for a few minutes you could see that everything else you’ve implied has nothing to do with the topic.

                  If actual scientists however are nothing but “some morons” for you, you’re simply incorrigible and ever conversation with you over this is pointless.

                  • Teal Dragon@lemdit.com
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                    1 year ago

                    Everything you write fuels bigotry against a hated demographic.

                    Teens usually have less experience than older adults. So they will be at a disadvantage.

                    You write that my posts have nothing to do with the topic, but my posts are the topic. You have veered off into totally irrelevant nonsense about neural pathways.

                    The vast majority of brain development happens ages 0-3 and 9-13. We get adult brains along with our adult bodies during puberty. That is scientific fact. The fact that brains age even after puberty is not new info, nor is it relevant at all to anything. Our brains slow down as we age. Maturity is not always a good thing.

                    re: “has convinced people that everyone under 25 is a retard” Yes. Sensational clickbait headlines about very unreliable fMRI studies did that. I am talking about public opinion here. You links to studies of tiny brain changes make no difference. Nobody cares. Read the nasty crap peeps write about under 25s. They have truly been convinced that youth are brain-dead morons who must be shunned if not locked up entirely.

                • Teal Dragon@lemdit.com
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                  1 year ago

                  Human brains are largest around age 13.

                  They never stop changing. But is “maturing” development or decay? or both?

                  We all know that teens are adults and that their brains work fine. People are just desperate to justify aiming hateful bigotry at them.

                  • Mrs_deWinter@feddit.de
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                    1 year ago

                    Well, and if you’re not trying to imply that we are at peak cognitive ability at the age of 13 (and I at least hope you don’t believe that) this should be hint number one for you that the way you think maturity works is probably wrong.

                    It also shows me that you didn’t even read the short excerpts I provided for you. Here, again:

                    Searching for Signatures of Brain Maturity: What Are We Searching For?

                    (…) For the current discussion, the key point is that there is no single progression that encompasses functional maturation. Neural activity intensifies and reduces, varies quantitatively and qualitatively, in linear and nonlinear ways that are both linked to—and independent of—behavioral differences across development. Each of these patterns reflects developmental progress, but the wide range of ‘‘journeys’’ prohibits a simple definition of what emerging brain functional maturity looks like. (…)

                    Or another quote from that paper:

                    (…) Measures of widespread brain connectivity shift in complex ways from childhood to adulthood, characterized by reductions in local connections and rises in distributed connections. These connectivity-based shifts are thought to reflect a brain that is becoming more efficient in its in-network communication and more integrated in its cross-network communication (…)

                    Since you seem confident in your grasp of the topic I guess those two should answer your question.

          • Teal Dragon@lemdit.com
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            1 year ago

            I want people to respect each other. and unwarranted infantilization is very damaging. Our teens are having a massive mental health crisis right now. They are depressed as hell and killing themselves at rates never before seen. The way we treat them like shit, tell them they’re idiots and will be for 10 more years contributes to this.

            • R0cket_M00se@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              We’ve not changed the way we see adolescent development for far longer than mental health and suicide have been rising, meaning your ideas of what’s contributing aren’t even remotely the cause. You wanna know why teenagers are killing themselves in record numbers? Here’s a few quick reasons…

              1. Social media. Influencers have created an entire fake reality that is so impossible for the average person to achieve that they feel disconnected and worthless. The fact that these people make boatloads of money while producing and providing zero value to the economy is also disheartening.

              2. Climate change. It’s clear that it’s happening, and clear that governments and their corporate overlords are willing to destroy the fucking planet while we can’t do anything about it.

              3. Cost of housing. Want to retire? Ever? Hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha. Hope your family is wealthy or has a place to pass down to you.

              4. Cost of education. In the last 50 years the cost of a bachelor’s degree has risen 500% above inflation. Somehow this has also happened during a decreased value of education as well (so literally breaking the economics of supply and demand) because every fucking entry level paperclip counting job needs you to have a 60k degree to “prove you have the discipline to get things done.”

              But yeah, I’m sure it’s the fact that 13 year olds aren’t considered legal adults (something that’s never been a thing in our society) that’s somehow causing the increased suicide in the last two decades. Cause that makes any fucking sense at all.

              • Teal Dragon@lemdit.com
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                1 year ago

                Your first sentence is completely wrong.

                Your straw man at the end is stupid bad-faith bullshit. The vast majority of teens are no longer 13.

                There are other factors, of course, but getting treated like shit, being constantly told you’re a moron, having your sex life criminalized, constantly being told you’ll get groomed and preyed on because you’re an idiot, getting zero respect, and having no legal rights is a major cause of the mental health crisis (which happened simultaneously with the change of paradigm from teens = young adults to teens = large children)

                • R0cket_M00se@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  having your sex life criminalized, constantly being told you’ll get groomed and preyed on because you’re an idiot

                  Damn dude, just admit you want to fuck kids already.

                  • Teal Dragon@lemdit.com
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                    1 year ago

                    Pathetic fool loses the argument so he starts hurling vile insults :-D

                    Sorry Clown. You lost.

    • Mr_Dr_Oink@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I guess its not practical to define a 14 year old as an adult when most people dont feel like an adult until they are like 30 or something.

      People tend to use school and university vs jobs and mortgages for example as a barrier to adulthood.

      I think it makes more sense to go with what people believe in general rather than to bog ourselves down with technicalities.

      • Teal Dragon@lemdit.com
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        1 year ago

        There are clear obvious scientific facts at work here. They are not technicalities.

        How I feel does not make reality real. If I feel like a dog, I am still human.

        Nature makes us adults. The process is called puberty. There are several visible objective secondary sexual characteristics which make pretty damned clear who is where in the process.

        • Mrs_deWinter@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          How I feel does not make reality real.

          Nice Freudian slip you’ve got there. How you feel, indeed, does not make your reality real. You keep claiming it’s a scientific fact while rambling about something no professional in the field would ever agree on.

          At one point you’ve learned about one aspect of measuring (purely physical) development - the tanner scale - and decided to forever discard everything else. Keep rest assured this is not how the world or science actually works.

          • Teal Dragon@lemdit.com
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            1 year ago

            The Tanner Scale measures puberty.

            Puberty is the line between childhood and adulthood.

            It’s really that simple.

            If you think there is some other better line, then present your case. Casting dopey aspersions on me just makes you look like a fool.