On most phones the end result will look fairly poor AND it will be a pain in the ass.

Building on top of wlroots is still a different scope of problem than writing a window manager for X. Pretending its the same thing doesn’t change the fundamentally different architecture even if it certainly makes it easier.

Out of all the libraries isn’t recent KDE the only fucking one that supports proper scaling of xwayland windows without turning it into a blurry mess? KDE which nice as it is lacks most of the nice tiling features of i3wm or the per monitor workspaces? Let me rip out and throw away a highly functional Nvidia GPU and come on down!

Don’t worry in another fucking 10 years all problems will be solved in the meanwhile I’ll just be fucking using non-beta software. Pardon me if I’m a little annoyed. Wayland has been the future for a while now.

I switched to using Linux in 2003 and have by my assessment got quite a bit of value over the last 20 years maybe you shouldn’t have waited?

X has a singular fully functional implementation into which you can slot a wide variety of components. Because everything is a component that slots into the singular X implementation forking has both a low benefit and a high cost.

Wayland is just a protocol everyone must implement with a semi useless reference implementation that nobody would ever use. Nobody forks Wayland they just implement it as they must the X approach isn’t available.

It’s apples to oranges. A meaningless comparison. Its more just churn than innovation on the part of desktops.

The article is 3 years old and some things are only presently being fixed NOW and due to filter down to stable distros in 2024. Furthermore wayland proponents have been claiming its totally ready for prime time and not broken at all since 2015 while promoting AMD GPUs that at that point in time still sucked hairy balls.

For most of its 15 year history implementations have been woefully and obviously insufficient. Nobody forked X because nobody needed to. Its feature complete and has been for a long time and there was nothing wrong with using X while Wayland implementations see progressive improvement.

It would be great it implementations had a full set of features 15 years in just saying.

Doesn’t that drastically limit your monitor support like to ONE?

Nvidia appeared fairly buggy as of nvidia 535 and kernel 6.3 with both sway and Plasma 5.27. Notably of all the possible choices for Wayland support ONLY KDE in relatively recent releases supports proper scaling of apps using xwayland which are apt to be a thing for a while now. This is a huge point in KDE’s favor despite loving the idea of an i3 like experience with sway.

If prior experience bears out plasma 6.0 will be buggy as fuck and 6.2 will be excellent.

Nouveau has NEVER been a particularly good choice and its primary developer just resigned https://www.phoronix.com/news/Nouveau-Maintainer-Resigns I wouldn’t pin my hopes on it in the future becoming usable. I sure as hell wouldn’t say its a useful choice NOW because you suppose it may become so in the future. I’d rather look at nvidias official open source effort.

If I had a crystal ball to look in I bet it would say a lot of folks with existing Nvidia hardware are best off sticking with X11 in 2023 but looking again at KDE’s wayland session in 2024.

Although do bear in mind people using stable distros like Ubuntu/Mint/Debian will be a lot longer seeing new useful features pushed out.

Normal people seem to be able to deal with their being a million different computers, cars, and breakfast cereals without throwing up their hands and all driving pintos, using HP laptops, and eating dirt.

Most users don’t constantly upgrade and would be apt to use LTS releases. Also other folks seem to be able to upgrade from one release to the other. Describing it as if users are actually doing a clean install every 6 months seems to be semi fictional.

It’s perfectly possible to spin up infrastructure under a different account. I don’t think its accurate to say void was almost lost when all the code is open source and can just be cloned.

There really isn’t any such thing as a “pure mate experience” for instance normal install likely contains VLC/Smplayer for multimedia, libre office for office docs, and firefox or chromium for web browsing. Not only are none of these mate apps most users probably spend most of their time using apps like these than their file manager.

Then if you look at the other mate apps. Mate Terminal is hardly the best terminal nor is Atril the best pdf viewer. Kitty is a better terminal and zathura and Okular are both better PDF readers. Pluma is a mediocre text editor.

The useful parts of an env are its settings menu, window manager, bar, and file manager. Pick one you like and then pick useful apps to go with it.

Nemo is the file manager for cinnamon. Dolphin is the file manager for plasma. Although they perform the same task their executables are on different paths as are their files. You could install 10,000 packages and never find a conflicting file save literal forks of the same project which your package manager will tell you about if you install both A an B. An example would be i3 a window manager, and i3-gaps a now depreciated fork of i3 which provides, you guessed it, gaps between windows.

There is no reason to believe installing 17 different environments would conflict let alone 2. There is no need whatsoever to keep anything separate from one another nor is there any reason to believe one would interfere with another.

Anyone can’t become a packager in 30 seconds in an automated process that they can’ t repeat the 47th time they transmit malware.

All of them?

If we admit that then an app store where anyone can create an account and upload software becomes extremely problematic. This is especially true wherein clients autoupgrade very quickly.

Step one. Legit package a popular app Step two. Wait for substantial uptake Step three. Mix in some ad or malware and watch a tens of thousands get instantly owned.

yes the point is that this is constantly brought up as if Photoshop was a staple of everyday computer use that was a vital missing piece of making Linux “ready for the desktop” instead of a professional tool by its nature primarily used by a minority. Of course if you are an artist and use windows/mac software to make money you probably shouldn’t bother with Linux but random bob kid who uses pirated photoshop to make memes can probably learn to make memes with gimp considering one can copy crop and put text on images fairly easy.

Compatibility with old hardware and hardware support in general is fairly good and traditionally Linux has been a lightweight solution to re-use hardware that otherwise might end up as e-waste. This doesn’t mean it supports everything nor does it mean continuing to buy random windows hardware and hope is a reasonable strategy nor is it a failure of the overall ecosystem if the hardware you yourself purchased isn’t supported.

For instance when I discovered linux back in 2003 I tried Linux on my existing hardware it happily worked. Since I liked how it worked so my next computer was purchased with Linux in mind. If that machine hadn’t worked well but I liked how the software worked I would have done the same thing.

Since people with working computers don’t bitch much forums are full of people at Linux Computer 1 bitching about how it doesn’t work as if not supporting that singular machine as if continuing to use Linux would require them to continually purchase random hardware based on what was on sale at walmart that week and rolling the dice

It’s funny you mention printers. Printers that are a “deal” usually aren’t. More often than not they are of poor quality with ridiculous printing costs. 80 dollars now 800 dollars of the next 5 years before it breaks down.

Instead for a few dollars more I got a laser with great per unit costs good reliability and I ensured compatibility through the magical and technical art of googling the model number and the word Linux. It took longer to remove the packaging than configuration and it works great but then it wasn’t like I picked it out by 1 factor I had several parameters to satisfy so I narrowed down the entire range of options in 15 minutes of research for a device I’ll probably be using for 10 years.

Laser/double sided printing/reasonable speed/scanner/linux support/affordable toner/ ethernet support/good resolution/price range.

Good hardware support doesn’t mean every cheap piece of shit you find in the reject pile in walmart will work perfectly because the support of free labor to build that support isn’t infinite. F

Lastly making memes with photoshop doesn’t make one an “advanced” user and most “advanced” usage doesn’t require photoshop specifically.

The person skipped a few steps when they did something stupid where they had to pass a flag for it to remove crap in the cli too