Stated as a fact with no emotion or judgment related to it. So that excludes mourning for it, which was the point I was making in my reply which was more than clear enough.

And I’m sorry, but I find it incredibly ironic how you’re the one saying reading comprehension isn’t that hard after failing to understand both Nietzsche and my comment.

You suggested them to read Nietzsche and from it you got he mourns the decline of religion through all of his works? Maybe you should also get a re-read.

The decline of religion is stated as a fact, killed by men’s rationality and evolution. As any evolution it has opportunities and risks, in this case the bigger risk is the loss of morality.

But the only thing he clearly advocates for is overcoming religion and God because they are not needed anymore. The new Man should make its own meaning and rules.

It’s the whole concept of the übermensch which is the single central point of his all system.

The quote is not supposed to be his opinion (not directly at least), it’s a character in a story.

It’s like taking the stance of Cephalus in the Plato’s Republic and say it’s Plato’s opinion, while it’s clearly just a tool to let Socrates speak.

Yeah, but the admin clarified in some replies that the moderation problems and possibility of receiving ads are already enough to choose to defederate. They didn’t give the absolute certainty but basically made their intentions clear.

But I agree with you, most people wanted to get a clear message against it and not just a “if that happens we will very likely defederate”.

I still think both approaches are fine, it’s good to decide by ethics and it’s good to wait and decide by rationality too. No wrong choices, it’s just a matter of preference

They explained the situation very well, and it’s not exactly as you described it.

Thread is outside the fediverse now, so there is literally nothing to defederate.

And they already basically admitted that in case of threads federating, they would defederate.

It was one of the few instances (if not the only one) to put down exactly what practical problems federating would cause instead of simply taking an ethical stance or regurgitating the usual nonsense EEE argument.

But people wanted an immediate, strong and ethical stance (which is also understandable), so they didn’t like the wait and they didn’t care about an objective analysis of pro and cons

I completely switched to lemmy for my random scrolling. But the main community for a game is still there so sometimes I keep lurking that subreddit only (exclusively from pc)

As I said, the article itself contains no proof that results would have been any different in the long term for XMPP. It’s just a baseless theory. We can read it again and again but the results will always be the same, I’m not sure why you’re pointing back to it when I analyzed every point it tries to make already.

I am not saying EEE doesn’t exist, I’m just saying that nothing in that article contributes to our discussion, and that the EEE scenario doesn’t really even fit our situation.

WhatsApp and Instagram were direct competitors to Facebook and Facebook messenger respectively. While not as big as Facebook, Instagram was pretty popular and WhatsApp was already a standard of communication in multiple countries (they payed 19 billions for it) So yeah, definitely they thought it was better to buy than compete. But are we really thinking the fediverse is even comparable to Instagram or WhatsApp? They wouldn’t buy it even if they could, it’s literally less than crumbles to them, both in value and user base.

I love the fediverse and I’m excited about it but let’s be serious, it’s crazy to even think meta would see it as a competitor. Remember, 19 billions dollars. That’s what meta thought it was better to pay to remove a competitor almost 10 years ago. Can you value the current fediverse even a 1% of that? Let’s not kid ourselves, we’re in no shape or form any kind of threat or competition to Meta.

And, also, we’re a different kind of service altogether. They would do something about reddit first if they were interested in this kind of service.

What they care about is filling the Twitter void, and this was the quickest/cheapest/most convenient way to do it. It can cause problems for mastodon, probably for kbin, but lemmy’s situation is different.

As I said before, there are legitimate causes of worry (moderations, ads, sheer size of their user base, pushing agendas etc) Let’s talk about those, which are important and can lead us to develop new ideas and ways to keep the fediverse healthy.

This EEE scarecrow makes no sense in our situation. We’re different services even if we can coincidentally communicate with to each other.

Also people keep saying to defederate when there is nothing to deferate from at the moment, threads is not federating anything. We don’t even know which domain we are supposed to defederate. Whats the point of talking technicalities without understanding them?

The conversation about what to do in case that happens is useful and healthy, but the sheer amount of disinformation and misunderstanding about the concepts is frankly crazy.

We don’t want to become like meta platforms that are full of disinformation, but most people keep spreading disinformation and mindless slogans here too instead of talking about the real issues.

That Zuck quote is the literal example of that. I have yet to see even one single person here saying that they trust Zuck. But people keep quoting it ad nauseam as if it has any meaning in our context. We are discussing about what are the risks and if they outweght the eventual benefits, nobody is saying that they trust the lizard.

I prefer someone saying “fuck meta, i don’t want any connection to them out of ethics” compared to the 200000th person posting the XMPP article as an out of context Bible.

If you read all of my previous post, you know I’m pro defederation, there is no point in trying to convince me since we already agree.

I’m just strongly against disinformation, fake issues and red herrings

I see this article posted over and over again, but it doesn’t help when many of the posters themselves don’t understand it (I don’t mean it’s your case specifically, of course, just generalizing)

The article starts saying that Google won by EEE with a completely personal hypothesis that has absolutely no factual base (the protocol would be more used today if Google didn’t use it, which is unprovable and overly optimistic)

Then proceeds talking about the office suite describing it as a similar EEE case (which was not since it was MS own thing since the beginning) and by completely ignoring the most glaring and important fact that lead to the current results (which is it being the default suite on any pc)

Then it finishes by saying that the fediverse shouldn’t be popular and have many people, it should instead focus on the freedom of it (which can be agreeable)

The real message of all that article is just that yeah, the average user likes to use whatever they find served to them directly (in Gmail, on their pc, on their phone) and doesn’t care at all where it come from or how it works. Convenience beats privacy for most people, out of ignorance.

There is absolutely no need for any EEE evil plan for someone who already controls the majority of users, that’s just a shortcut to avoid developing something from scratch.

There are real issues with federating threads (moderation, ads, their number controlling the All/Hot pages etc).

It’s not useful, in my opinion, to keep using EEE as a scarecrow without even understand that at the moment Meta has absolutely nothing to take advantage of since the number of people that use mastodon only without any meta product on their phone is so small to be nothing to them.

What meta can gain from mastodon is that they don’t have to start coding from scratch, saving time and money and coming out now at the perfect moment of Twitter collapse. And maybe a bit of a positive image because they “work on open source”.

That’s the whole value they probably see on this atm, not way less than a million people that probably have other meta products on their phones anyway.

I think we should focus on the real problems, this EEE thing is basically becoming propaganda at this point and makes almost no sense in our specific case (lemmy vs threads)

I also agree with a defederating-first cautios approach, btw, for the reasons explained before. But we should talk, inform and discuss about the real problems