But you’re not researching, hiring, and scheduling a contractor to fix it. You don’t need to become an expert in long term planning and anticipate problems. You’re not mentally cataloging basic maintenance tasks like when you last painted the siding or mowed the lawn.

Home ownership vs renting goes beyond equity and I know a lot of people who were happy renting because it gave them a huge chunk of free time back for trips, hobbies, etc.

To avoid misrepresentation, I’ll quote my original proposition:

It was not to compare ideologies but the end result of extremism and radicalization. Words become violent action and a willingness to forego peaceful change.

The casual introduction and acceptance of capital punishment and “useful” applications of police brutality, as if they were common tools in a political toolbox, is a mark of the beginning of that very shift.

Anyway, I’ve spent far too much time in here so I’m trying to put this whole post behind me. My own personal “disengage”, I guess? I just didn’t want to leave while being lumped in with the other people leaving crude, shallow dismissals as Russian tankies/bots/shills/trolls/whatever. I entered these conversations with a neutral viewpoint on Hexbear, not even in favor of defederation, but that has sadly changed quite a bit.

I’d call it a strawman but it’s so weak, I don’t think there’s even any straw.

No, those were not radical extremist positions. Anti-Nazi was the default position, it did not start small and grow. For Abolition, that depends on what region you’re referring to but in the US, it was not a radical position. Even prominent slaveholders admitted slavery was bad although it didn’t change their behavior.

I only have the unfortunate experience of encountering MAGA types who revel in using the term as a pejorative. Regardless, hurling personal attacks is unpleasant no matter who’s doing it.

If those long threads were mostly on topic (about federation), that would at least be something. They present interesting view points but at all the wrong times and in huge numbers. This post is about examining their behavior and their effect on conversations. I think they’ve shown it to us.

So you support defederation then. Interesting.

It was not to compare ideologies but the end result of extremism and radicalization. Words become violent action and a willingness to forego peaceful change.

That said, someone just insulted me by calling me a Liberal so I dunno, feels kinda MAGA-y to me ;).

As mentioned, they were welcome to comment but I’m afraid their participation has only reinforced my beliefs. I was really hoping for a discussion on WHY federation matters and what we hope to build and encourage in the Fediverse. Instead every thread turns into a pointless debate about the finer points of political philosophy or why the US bombed Hiroshima or some other random event in history. Look those are important topics but that’s not why we’re here in this thread right now.

Despite the accusations of some, I truly do not care if they’re communist. However, the Fediverse is faced with an opportunity to really change the Internet for the better. That change can’t happen if newcomers are turned off en masse by aggressive users who want to proselytize. “Just block them” doesn’t work for the newbies who just got here and who have no idea what’s going on.

I personally wouldn’t call this brigading per se but I stand by it as evidence of the eagerness to derail things into wildly offtopic discussions that poison the well for everyone else. And no, just because someone says something first doesn’t mean you are compelled to respond until they concede or give up.

After more reading elsewhere, it also speaks to an all too comfortable relationship with political violence. “I’m not saying we put people up against the wall… But if we did, who would go first? The bankers or the factory owners?” The offtopic bit is destructive to community building but the absolute fascination of who dies for what reason is pretty damned concerning.

The soviet combat performance was much less important than the fact that Russia had just broken their alliance with the incredibly war crimin’ Japanese Empire. Not exactly something that I would want to call out if I was on Team Red. Just sayin’.

This would have been the accepted action a little over 10 years ago. I think we’ve learned and experienced a lot since then. Just because something is online doesn’t make it harmless. Radicalization is a real threat. It’s how we got MAGA, ISIS, etc. Their ideology accepts summary executions in the street.

I was indifferent to defederation before, I don’t leap to trampling the speech of others, but interacting here has opened my eyes. There’s no way they can stay. The popular cliche “If there’s 9 guys and 1 nazi sitting a table, there’s 10 nazis sitting at a table” fits here.

A long winded manifesto justifying mass state executions for political enemies.

This also neatly plays into my other reason for defederation: Hexbears seem acutely susceptible to lengthy preaching and insatiable defense of their ideology. Even if such ideology didn’t involve beheading the heretics, it’s unwelcome as an off-topic distraction in almost all situations and communities suffer as a result.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. No, you did not make the attack.

However, it seems that things like “Your kulak grandparents deserved to die” are accepted and supported on Hexbear, as long as it doesn’t draw undue attention. Except your user forget their “time and place” for airing the dirty laundry. This garbage is not a free exchange of ideas; this a few steps away from actually beheading the non-believers. Just as I would support defederating from other extermist hate instances, Hexbear needs to go.

And then to just throw in another comment:

ChestRockwell: when I say “landlords are evil and deserve to die or surrender their assets to the collective” what I’m describing is a particular set of actions. It’s not different from having an opinion on if murderers deserve capital punishment.

I see absolutely zero value in this “other viewpoint”. There is really no legitimate debate here.

I hope you understand that I singled you out as you seem to be in conversation with Sun. And this is unfortunate to read.

Sunaurus is standing up for staying federated with Hexbear. That’s about as good faith as it gets. To then be attacked in such a vile and repugnant way is totally inexcusable.

I find your explanation and your excuses about technical limitations to be pretty lame. I seem to be able to go about my online life without telling people that their grandparents deserve(d) their deaths. I don’t need CSS to help me act like a civilized individual.

I agree and I’m sorry you’ve experienced that. Such shill accusations are reactionary, add to a toxic atmosphere, and contribute nothing to any conversation. In fact, I don’t think comment removal is a sufficient tool: hot heads should be given 24 hour bans to cool off. My 2 cents though. I am neither admin nor moderator.

I vote for defederation

Hexbear will not contribute to a healthy ecosystem. I do not believe they can uphold their promises to rein in their worst instincts, no matter how much they earnestly try.

It’s evident that the mainstream Hexbear ideology is one of extremism and a fig leaf of barely concealed militancy. Fascination and celebration with violence or death against their political enemies is encouraged. Enemies condemned simply by belonging to a system or class. “We don’t actually support violence but hey, just asking questions, why do we have capital punishment for murderers but not landlords?” These ideas are not the product of a healthy, balanced mind nor can we call them mere innocent political beliefs.

In this very thread, where they are under a microscope, there is a substantial amount of inexcusable behavior. It’s impossible to believe that Hexbear is capable of the restraint required to behave outside of their own instance. They identify so heavily with their political beliefs that they leap to defend them against the most minor transgression and argue 10 layers deep into the comments. The topic could be whether the newest Pixel phone is any good or not but you’ll find a long tirade about “imperialist” trade policies that you’ve seen a million times before and has absolutely nothing to do with anything. That is not how healthy communities grow and develop.

I tried to keep an open mind. I have seen insightful comments from Hexbears and yes, it is healthy to challenge my own worldviews. But the weight of the unapologetic and unhealthy behavior overrides that. Hexbear must be defederated. If I want to debate the finer points of communism (and I really don’t), I know where to find them.

Can @Awoo@hexbear.net or another Hexbear user confirm that the comment referenced above is common and acceptable within Hexbear’s CoC?

I think we’re capable of having level-headed conversations with other instances about toning it down whenever we step outside our own hive.

Clearly some of you are having a very difficult time with that simple expectation.

It was an extremely bigoted, vulgar, personal attack on an admin in his own thread about why Hexbear deserves a second chance.

An utterly vile statement like that followed by your soft “time and place” non-rebuke does not deserve any benefit of the doubt so yes, I will absolutely jump to the obvious interpretation. Especially in a thread about continued unacceptable Hexbear behavior. “Read the room” indeed.

You need to do a much better job taking out your trash than this. Chiding him for saying the quiet part out loud is basically saying you should be defederated as a hate instance.

This is highly offtopic flamebait that will trigger a protracted argument of little substance.

Further, how you’ve casually slipped into a debate about capital punishment for enormous swathes of population is disturbing and disgusting. This is the lack of self awareness that others have mentioned here.